Some interesting developments as the novel comes near to the end. Or, as the saying goes, the plot thickens. I’m interested in your thoughts about the following questions.
What’s up with Quarrier and Huben going crazy with jealousy because Moon appears naked before Andy? They tolerate the Niaruna nudity more or less; certainly they aren’t afraid for Andy’s chastity. What’s the difference between Indian nudity and the nudity of a half-American Indian pretending to be an Indian?
What’s going on with Andy? Quarrier describes a new “hardness” in her. How has she changed, and why? Likewise, Hazel is going off the deep end. I must say I rather like this new Hazel, in a sick way. Is she mocking the missionaries and their mission, or is she totally unaware of her own actions and words?
This isn’t a question but an observation. Notice how in these chapters Moon is becoming more and more “civilized” and Uyuyu is reverting back to “savagery.” Quarrier even calls Moon on it. “You’re not a savage, Moon, and you never were, and you never will be.” Interesting.
How is the argument between Xantes and Huben emblematic of the whole clash between Catholics and Protestants? Does anyone know what “apostolic succession” means? Describe Huben’s and Xantes’s rhetorical styles? Is one more convincing than the other?
I don’t know what to say or ask about Hazel’s night of wild sex. “Wow,” is all I wrote in the margin.
What do you think will come of the Niaruna, now that they’re moving to a new place? Talk about irony. Consider the great distance between Moon’s original goal for the Niaruna and what appears to be the result of his meddling.
Guess that’s it for this time. Any other thoughts are most welcome too.
Outside Lit 
I think the difference between a nude Indian and naked Moon is that both Quarrier and Huben view the Niaruna as a completly different spieces. It doesn’t bother people when they see an animal with clothes, in fact, when an animal does wear clothes, it is out of the ordinary and people will find this strange. In this case both Quarrier and Huben had previously identified Moon as a white man similar to them, and therefore Moon’s nakedness is out of the ordinary for them. Not to metion, since they both see Moon as part of their spieces and they idolize Andy, they are jealous.
Bonus points for being first.
I agree. I also feel that Huben and Quarrier think Moon knows better than to appear before a women naked. Moon was in thier society and I think Quarrier and Huben still hold them to their society views even though Moon is trying to live in a totally different society where nudity doesn’t mean disgrace.
I completely agree. Quarrier and Leslie both don’t think of the niaruna the same way that they view Moon. The Niaruna, in their own view, is nothing more than a group of animals which is why they can understand and be fine with the lack of clothing
Yes, and I think this shows, despite their best intentions, that they do not really think the niaruna are on the same level as them. I think this is significant. How can you reach out to people that you believe inferior? If anything, our friend Lewis Moon has done more to understand their way of life than the Missionaries ever will
I totally agree, the entire time I was reading the chapters from Moon’s perspective, I consistently thought of how much more understanding he was of the Niaruna lifestyle. The Missionaries have so many false cultural assumptions that it will be impossible for them to actually reach the Niaruna’s and be able to successfully convert them. How can the Missionaries honestly expect to convert them when they don’t even understand the basics of the Niaruna’s traditions and what will offend their way of life?
Quarrier and Leslie both see Moon as one of their own still or at least not entirely an indian, and that does contribute to the reasoning for their outrage. I thought it was interesting how super worked up Quarrier got, which just goes to show how much of a little crush he has on Andy, of course it makes sense that Leslie would get upset. I did like how little Andy got upset over this, she was the one who was exposed to Moon and his nudity but Quarrier and and Leslie totally freak out.
“What’s up with Quarrier and Huben going crazy with jealousy because Moon appears naked before Andy? They tolerate the Niaruna nudity more or less; certainly they aren’t afraid for Andy’s chastity. What’s the difference between Indian nudity and the nudity of a half-American Indian pretending to be an Indian?”
From the view of Quarrier:
Moon knows better. He is not of the Niaruna. Of course he as put himself in their tribe, but he has not always been. So the fact that he dressed like that, follow Andy and then eventually went up to her, is like he’s taking advantage of the situation. It’s like he’s taking advantage of Andy. I also believe that Quarrier’s actions are out jealousy. His lust for Andy makes him almost protective and jealous of her. A small part of Quarrier wanted to be in Moon’s place, getting to see Andy in that way, and of course getting to see her naky.
I think that both Leslie and Q over reacted regarding the nudity. Leslie overreacted because he was under the impression that since Moon had once been a civilized man he should continue to act like a civilized man. Q on the other hand over reacted out of jealousy. His lust for Andy has become uncontrollable and he finds himself longing for any sort of sexual relation with Andy. When Moon randomly encounters her and has said interaction I think Q’s main problem was that it was not himself in the situation of being to see or touch Andy while they were both undressed.
Regardless I do not see nakedness as a problem or sin. It is a natural state of being especially for those without clothes.
Agreed. But I think Les was even more jealous–and threatened–than Q. They’re really afraid that Andy might have liked what she saw!
Exactly since she hadn’t even told Leslie that it had been Moon she encountered on the river bank and was reluctant to tell Q. Leslie is insecure in his own and especially in the setting of the mission.
I don’t think it is a question if she liked what she saw. To me it was clear that before coming back to the mission her faith in the religion and Leslie was faltering. After the encounter with Moon her faith was at an all-time low, and I do believe she enjoyed the run in with Moon.
Maybe we could even come to the conclusion that Leslie is more threatened because this run-in with Moon and Andy could be yet another indicator that his and Andy’s relationship is slowly starting to crumble?
I think that Quarrier and Huben are upset about Moon being nude in front of Andy due to the fact that Moon is a “civilized” person unlike the Niaruna. He understands how being nude in a civilized world differs from being nude in the jungle. The Niaruna are used to being uncovered all the time and they dont make anything of it since its practically their culture.
Yes, but–and pardon my direct language here–isn’t a penis just a penis? The difference is all imaginary, seems to me.
Didn’t mean this to be a direct reply to Pete, but more a general statement.
Yes, but it is different because our culture tells us that it is different. We have to cover ourselves. “No shirt, no shoes no service” etc.
Good example.
You’re saying nudity is wrong if you say it’s wrong, and since we say it’s wrong, it’s wrong, even if you’re pretending to be a people who don’t say it’s wrong. I think I’m with you…
Exactly. We have way different morals compared to the Niaruna. We were raised according to them and therfore we seeem to follow them even if we pretend to be someone else.
Also it is almost part of Leslie and Quarriers religion not to run around naked showing off their jibbliez to everyone. Moon is just in his element and even says later that he wasn’t trying to cause an issue by being nude around Andy. Like you said, a penis is just a penis to the Niaruana.
I don’t necessarily agree that it has anything to do with their religion. It is definitely more of the society that their religion has come to exist in. I mean i guess i see what you’re saying with Adam and Eve and how when they were no longer innocent after Eve ate the apple. And they began to see to world for what it was and clothed themselves. But at the same time I think religion has come to take the back burner with nudity. If my religion all of a sudden came up with a rule that said everyone who believed would run around naked I wouldn’t because of the society we live in.
Oh, by the way, check out my Bell Bird post. Kind of neat.
I think Martin and Leslie’s response to Moons lack of clothing was expected. They all, including Andy, knew Moon before he reverted back to his indian ways, so they knew him as one of them, and it is not acceptable for them to be running around naked, so they still had the same expectation for Moon. Also, they could both possibly feel threatened Moon because they feel Andy could possibly be lusting after him, so her seeing him naked could only encourage that. I also think Martin wanted to be in Moons shoes when that encounter happened.
Yep.
I totally agree.
I also feel that the fact that both Quarrier and Huben do not trust Andy in front of naked Moon contributes to her oncoming “hardness”. I think Andy is realizing how insecure and weak her husband is, such as that he fled as soon as Quarrier left for the Niaruna village.
Absolutely. And good transition into another question.
What I found most interesting about these chapters was the revelation that Kisu is an evil spirit to the Niaruna. The missionaries keep saying Kisu to them equating the Niaruna Kisu with their Jesus, so of course its only natural that the Niaruna flee from that sort of thing, after being told that Jesus is the same as an evil spirit who brings horrible floods.
Yep. One small miscommunication ruins the whole deal.
Mark Twain wrote that the difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and lightning bug.
I agree that this was definitely surprising. No wonder the Niruana weren’t responding in the way that the missionaries had wanted/expected. When Martin found this information out, his speechlessness (word?) truly explained his feelings of remorse and probably stupidity. He is right to “not blame” the Niruana for not welcoming the “help” of the missionaries.
Agreed, and this all relates back to what a few of us said before. Overall the missionaries can’t expect to convert anyone if they don’t understand the basics of what they believe.
I think Huben and Andy’s relationship is so tense and awkward right now that maybe even a little bit of jealousy hits him. He keeps on yelling that it was a disgrace that Moon would have the arrogance to stand before a perfectly good Christian women and yet he puts no blame on Andy. If the half American Indian would have been any other man, I don’t think it would be that big of a deal to Leslie. As for Quarrier, he simply lusts after Andy constantly and to think that someone else saw her naked, nonetheless Moon, makes him really uneasy and blatantly jealous. I feel like if it had been Hazel who Moon had seen it wouldn’t have been that big of a deal. As well as for the fact that they had touched each other and had a little “moment” by the river.
Great point about Hazel. Nobody would have cared, including Moon and Q.
I think the women in the story are changing because of how the men are changing. The men are changing because they are becoming more worried of how they are going to help these Indians out. Andy is having this hardness to her because I think she can see that Quarrier is changing into Leslie. I think Quarrier is starting to take some of his beliefs that he maybe didn’t have before and changing them to fit Leslie’s ideas. Hazel is changing because her son has died and she can’t cope with that. She also seems to be going to crazy. She seems like she says anything that comes to her head and has no relevance to what anyone else is talking about.
I know Hazel is sick, but I sort of feel that she may embelishing her reactions in order to make people notice her. During the dinner with Father Xantes, she completley mocks the Christian religion even though she has firmly believed in it her entire life. At first, I thought that the dangers of the jungle was causing Hazel to loose her faith, but on futher thought I think that she is just saying anything to get people to actually notice her.
That is a really good point staceydahm10. I can see where you are coming from and I think this is a good way of explaining why she has changed. She is changing because all the attention isn’t on her. She is maybe acting like a crazy person so her husband will not think abou the Nairuna as much and just go home with her.
I totally think Hazel is mocking the missionaries. She may be going off the deep end, but she is aware of the fact she gets to them with her snarky comments, and she is just trying to get her emotions about the situation. She is showing her dislike of the situations in a very passive aggressive way because there is only so much the others will say to her considering her “fragile” condition and all the pain she’s been through.
Absolutely. She’s actually pretty funny these days.
Honestly I love new Hazel, she is way more fun than when she had first shown up. Screaming random phrases or swinging her prized fly swatter and her cynical remarks make her a much more interesting character. I was sad when they decided to fly her away.
In regards to whether or not she knows what she is saying or if she is totally nuts now, I think she does know. I think that she had been holding in all of these raw emotions and troubling thoughts she has been having about this place that has put her so out of her element. Now she is just speaking honestly and freely making whatever comment comes to mind even if it’s hurtful or even vindictive of her own religion and purpose for being there.
She’s bat shit cray. I don’t get it. How could she have blown up this much?
I agree with jasen she’s just gone off the deep end to me. the jungle and the loss of her son have made her crazy
I agree. I think since the first chapter of this book, Hazel has been holding so much in. In the beginning she was trying to be supportive of Q as well as Billy, although she absolutely hated where they were and how they were living. As the book has progressed, she has gone completely insane. I think she was lacking something the night she and Q had that tantric encounter or whatever and then once everything started happening and she began using the Lord’s name in vain, I think it was kind of a blow to Q. I think flying her out of the book was great because I’m not quite sure how much farther her insanity could have gone.
As Quarrier says, Moon is not a savage and never will be, so his being naked is seen almost as doubly sinful by Q/Huben. Moon should know better, in their eyes.
As for Hazel…she needs to be shipped out as soon as possible, because there is nothing left for her in the jungle. I don’t often recommend institutionalization (generally that type of atmosphere is toxic in and of itself and can cause it’s own problems), but for Hazel I will make the exception- she needs a month or two where she’s in a completely safe, completely wholesome environment (in her mind) before anyone can even think about getting her on the right track to getting back out into society.
Can I just say that I love Padre Xantes? The guy is fantastic. He’s totally got Huben’s number, and he always knows whats really going on, but he rarely uses it as an unfair advantage. He’s just calm, cool collected, and he enjoys mentally sparring with people just for the sake of it. I think it’s very symbolic of the class between protestants and catholics. The protestants are running around making changes or advocating this or railing against that and the catholics just kindof sit back and watch them with a patronizing smile, every once in a great while saying to the protestants “your argument is cute, but seriously, just chill out and realize were right.”
I agree the protestants are just going the wrong way in dealing with Niaruna. They are trying to convert them with gifts and making deals with them. Which can be seen as a wrong way. They are trying to have people making deals with their Jesus, which they can say they are praising Jesus, but it probably isn’t affecting them in any way.
Love your take on Xantes. He is suave, smart, cultured, especially compared to “boorish” Huben. But he’s also kind of arrogant, and there’s something weird about how he gets off on suffering.
Generally, the Catholic faith is seen as the more “intellectual.” But it’s also more open to corruption, and less able to change with the times.
And don’t forget how petty the argument between Huben and Xantes finally becomes.
I believe Andy’s hardness has come from being percieved differently from Huben and Quarrier. After the way they reacted about Moon seeing her naked, I think she feels they don’t trust her and never have. They have changed since being in the jungle and Andy is going to stick up for what she believes just as the other people are.
As far as Andy goes, I think she is starting to grow up and see the world for more of what it is and how bleak and dark it can be. It’s kind of like the positive attitudes college kids have entering the world, and then sh** gets real and it changes their attitudes. She had a very picturesque view of the world, and now thats starting to change. She see’s everyone in a new light and that is obviously going to change someone.
The argument between X and Leslie was rather comical in my mind. I felt like X knew what he was talking about and had total control over the conversation. When Leslie would try to interject something X would look away, laugh, or eat in order to piss off Leslie. This strategy worked because throughout the argument you could tell that Leslie was getting rather worked up. I believe that X was able to dominate the argument due to his intuition and deep seeded religious beliefs as opposed to the more business like religious view that Leslie has.
Good point. I also think father Xantes is more wise to desire to create an alliance between the Catholics and Protestants. It doesn’t make sense that there would be two religious groups trying to sway the beleifs of the Niaruna…as soon as they would begin to grasp one religion, the other religous group would just be telling them that they were wrong. This could go in either direction.
I totally agree. I felt the whole conversation was a lost for Leslie. The book even made a comment about how comfortable X was in a enemies land, eating more than the hosts and enjoying himself. I feel X was much more prepared and the things he was saying made much more sense than Leslie’s ever did. I also agree that X was able to dominate because of his religious beliefs unlike Leslies business beliefs.
I agree, i feel as though Xantes controlled the verbal part of the argument and the mental part such as when he would purposely eat or ask for seconds when Huben was pissed simply that they allowed him to eat with them. It almost seems like the same hatred Aoere sometimes has for Moon
Although I do think that Hazel has gone crazy, I think she does know what she is saying. In my opinion, she had surpressed these feelings when they first arrived in the jungle, but now that Billy has gone and she has nothing to live for, she doesn’t hold back on what she truly feels of their trip and the surrounding jungle
I agree. I believe she has become a victim to some sort of mental disorder, and this is due to the fact of the radical life changing events over the course of the book accompanied by suppressing her feelings with her husband. Between moving to a jungle, losing a son, and essentially realizing that you married a man you did not love it did not come as a total surprise to me that she has lost her mind.
I agree. I feel like she gave up on helping the Niaruna and she doesn’t really care what will happen to her. She’s just going with the flow at this point.
Changing subjects, I think it is interesting that Moon inducted himself into the Niaruna’s way of life in order to find meaning in his life by association with a surrogate Indian culture. The ironic part is he expected to be “re-birthed” in this new culture and find acceptance as a pure Indian; however, exposing himself to the Niaruna people only brought about death and the slow extinction of the Niaruna people. Moon seems to bridge the white society of the north and the indigenous culture of the south. Moon achieves a harmony with nature that aligns him with the Niaruna, yet his plan to organize a military resistance evidences the exploitative north. Moon will never truly be “Indian.”
I think it is also funny how in the beginning, Moon was sent to kill the Niaruna, and now after all this time, he finally has.
Yeah, and the only way he was able to be accepted by them was to convince them he was a terrible and dangerous god. Not exactly one of them at all!
I agree with you erinjones10. Moon has brought in things that white man has created or can carry. He brings in the flu because he was in contact with the white people. Ever since the missionaries have been there, The Niaruna seem to become more deadly. But since one doesn’t know if the Niaruna were split into these different groups, one cannot put full blame on the missionaries. What if in the next coming chapters Moon is actually bringing the Niaruna into more danger because he is having them leave the land they have grown with?
How is the argument between Xantes and Huben emblematic of the whole clash between Catholics and Protestants? Does anyone know what “apostolic succession” means? Describe Huben’s and Xantes’s rhetorical styles? Is one more convincing than the other?
I think the argument is important because it shows just how little, subtle differences can get in the way of being something much more whole. When you ask somebody what religion they are, they don’t say “I’m a Christian”, they say “I’m Catholic” or “I’m Protestant.” When Xantes talks about apostolic succession, he’s talking about the line of popes, disciples that God called in order to lead the Church and defend the faith. In Xantes’ case, his rhetoric is that the Protestant priests are not priests at all but rather so-called “outlaw priests” who operate outside of the true Church because of their lack of blessing from the Pope. Huben says that the apostles were but “simple, ordinary Christians” who were sent by Jesus to carry out his work among the people. He sees the Pope and rather the Catholic Church as “the Opposition”, and does everything in his power to try and convince the Niaruna of joining the Protestant faith. In the case of which style is more convincing, I really can’t see a clear victor. In my opinion, these are but two Christian men arguing over which one is more Christian than the other.
Nicely put.
I really enjoy listening to what Xantes has to say. He speaks in such a way that is so passive aggressive and gets those small jabs in there, sometimes its hard to even respond to what he has to say. He always seems very calm and blase about what is going on around him or in the conversation. I think it would be sort of frustrating to speak with such a person, he never really shows much emotion but amusement. I think of a very wise person who has seen a lot in his days when I think of Xantes.
I agree. X was a soften sporken asshole, and those are the types of people that really get under your skin (Clearly worked on Leslie). I loved it.
Personally, I think Xantes is sneaky and I really enjoying every encounter the characters have with him. He spices up the story and gives it a dry, twisted humor that I feel the rest of the novel somewhat lacks. He seems like a very hard person to read as well as very “under the radar” with everything he says which is why he essentially annoys everyone he encounters. I’m not going to lie though, the dialogue between Xantes and the missionaries kind of had me confused.
Some of the argument, I think, was supposed to be confusing, and even pointless. The author’s way to show how petty religious differences can sometimes be.
Regarding Moon’s nakedness, he knew that he would going to the missionaries and actively chose to not put clothes on. He did it because he wanted to “test his diguise” and see if the missionaries would recognize him. If he would have been clothed, they would have spotted him out faster.
I think Martin was so upset by it becasue he has “feelings” for Andy. He obviously knows that she has had sexual relations, becasue she’s married, but since he knows Moon, the situation is different. Martin is protective of Andy, and therefore is defensive of her when he thought she was violated.
I think Moon went nuts about Moon’s nakedness becasue since Moon had been around Christianity and it’s culture and values, he probably didn’t expect Moon to go against those values. The missionaries think of the Indians as animals, therefore, it seems fitting that they would not be clothed.
I think Leslie and Martin’s response to Moon’s nakedness in front of Andy is two things. Firstly, Leslie is Andy’s husband. The man doesn’t want his “clean Christian wife” staring at some other guy’s junk or else he might be getting compared to him. As for Martin, he’s already conflicted because he’s seeing Andy as a better option than his lunatic wife and plus he has to deal with the fact that she’s married to Leslie Huben. The idea that Lewis Moon saw and touched Andy must have just put him over the edge in that regard. The Niaruna are one thing; they’re natives. In Huben and Quarrier’s eyes, they don’t really know any better. But Moon should (despite not being a pure Christian like them) know better than to appear naked in front of a Christian woman (much less someone’s wife).
Moon is a legitimate threat to these men, someone Andy could possibly be interested in. Nice use of “junk.”
I think that Quarrier and Leslie are so offended by Moon’s nudeness because not only should he “know better” but he knew Andy before he went “savage”. I think part of their rage comes from their jealously of Andy’s fascination with Moon from their days in Madre de Dios. I believe that Andy’s changes have to do with the changes that she sees in Leslie. I think that she was so tolerant to the mission before because of her love for Leslie, but as that fades, so does her tolerance to their mission. I think that it is kind of hard to believe that Hazel is intentionally making the comments that she makes; I’m under the impression that her insanity has caused her to spew random phrases when she feels like saying them. Along with that, I look at her “night of wild sex” as more evidence to her insanity and to show how much she has truly changed from the Hazel that arrived to the jungle just months prior. I am really unfamiliar with the Catholic versus Protestant religion “battle” outside of this story, but I do find Father Xantes’ argument to be more convincing. He has pointed out the fact that Leslie is only wanting to help the Niaruna when they are willing to look God the way he wants them to. Kind of similar to the instance where he wants to deny them of medication to cure the flues that are killing the Indians. What do I think fate has in store for the Niaruna? It may be rather pessimistic but I do not see them lasting much longer as a tribe under Takuna’s leadership.
I agree. Especially when Leslie learns about how Andy was out on the airstrip right before Moon left by herself. I’m sure that made Leslie wonder just a little bit
Yup.
I can’t see the book ending while the Niaruna are still under Takuno’s leadership, but I do find it interesting that as soon as Takuno became leader his personality changed imediatly. Instead of being the joke of the tribe, he is trying to become a feared leader. For example, he hit a child which has never happened before.
I think the reason quarrier and huben are angry about moon’s nakedness in front of andy is because he had been civilized and should know better. Also, huben should be mad due to the fact that it was his wife that he encountered in the nude. The reason quarrier is mad, to me, is the fact that in his mind if anyone other than huben should be naked with andy, it should be him. So, in other words quarrier was simply jealous that moon saw the fruit of her loins before he was able to.
I feel like the reason Andy has gained this hardness could be because she’s becoming more bottled up as she’s not able to talk to anyone about her problems since huben acts childish, quarrier gets mad when she’s honest because of his lust for her, and hazel is just crazy and hates her. Also it could have to do with the environment toughening her mentally and physically.
I think that hazel has become crazy since the loss of their son, she rarely speaks to her husband. Along with that when she did speak to her husband in chapter 23 it was more of animal instinct that came out rather than the way hazel used to be.
To me, i felt like father Xantes was more convincing due to the way he was able to keep calm during the altercation and I feel as if he was there not to argue but to help/warn the missionaries which is an act of good heartedness instead of spite to the protestants.
The Niaruna seem to be dying out in my mind since they just lost their tribe leader and aeore has abandoned them and may potentially come back with hostility. This is bad since the niaruna already have to worry about an attack from Guzman and the green indians which is why i think they will soon die out.
I agree about the Niaruna dying out. I feel like most of them will be killed due to their seperation. Instead of worrying about one attack, they have to worry about two and i feel like at the end, Niaruna Indians will no longer exist.
I believe Leslie and Martin were upset for different reasons. Leslie was insulted because it was moon. Moon has the decency and the learned culture of wearing clothes, and it is well-known the custom of civilized people to respect that. Leslie finds it particularly insulting that Moon would deliberately be naked in front of him, and takes it as a personal insult that Moon would defy the respect for Leslie and be naked; Huben thinks it was geared at him in particular to be a derogatory motion against his integrity.
Martin is upset because he is jealous. He wanted Andy, and is pissed that this low life copped a feel instead of him. He finds Moon revolting and is especially revolted by the mere idea of such a terrible person being sexually attracted, and semi acting on those feelings, where as he cannot. He wants her, and doesn’t want anyone else to.
Andy is kind of being a bit of a tart. She is promiscuous in her flirting, and kind of wants to be a slut and begin fooling around with various men in the story, but never quite ends up following through. I feel like this is her hardness, and she’s losing her faith so -to-speak, as she so describes Martin, and she is changing into a faithfully-confused person; whose moral compass has lost its arrow. Essentially, I feel like she’s trying to find who she is again.
Hazel on the other hand, has become a bitter, vile woman. She is explicitly toyed with the missionaries and their intentions, and is following through with insult. She knows damn well what she’s doing, and is going to keep going about what she does because she enjoys it. Martin likes the sociology of Indians; Leslie likes to appear awesome; and Hazel likes to demean people.
I agree that Moon is less savage than he was before, but that’s just who he is. He only uses his arsenal when the weapons are appropriate. I feel that because Martin is there, he is acting more civilized, whether conscious of it or not.
I feel father Xantes is far more convincing and persuasive in his rhetoric. He is calm, smooth, and enticing. Leslie is one of those types that Socrates would love to question. He is just full of air; he understands his beliefs as pragmatic arguments, and nothing more. He doesn’t know where things derive, nor why they are crucial to a certain beliefs and the consequences of affirming those ideals, he merely just believes because he should and isn’t able to tread water when people question him. So, when Xantes speaks of uniting them, or temporarily fighting with each other on a more reclusive level, Leslie rejects and rejects and rejects because he doesn’t listen to reason; he worries of his image and the way people perceive his power. And if he is willing to compromise in any way, his beliefs mustn’t be as strong as they should be.
Hazel be crazy.
I feel like them moving to another place is very ironic for Moon. His whole life he has been wandering, and he finally settles and tried to establish this great nation; with his primary motivation being to ascertain stability. And after all his efforts, he is forced to be on the move again. The plan couldn’t have back fired any worse. He screwed himself by staying so close to home, he should’ve gone farther where no one knew his name. I guess this story is a tragedy for Moon, as his great spiritual war is unceasing. It sucks, but he did it to himself.
The Niaruna are screwed with Tukano in the lead.
Nice mention of Socrates. Agreed.
Seeing as how Quarrier and Huben both have feelings for Andy, I think it’s only reasonable to say they were upset about the fact that she shared an intimate moment (being nude) with Moon. Some human tendencies seem to transcend cultural influences.
What Quarrier describes as a new “hardness” in Andy could be the result of an accumulation of frustrations in response to the way Huben sees her now. Her overall attitude shifts in light of Huben’s recent disposition and this shift is perceived by Quarrier to have a sort of hardening-or strengthening- affect.
Hazel’s outcries and displays of insanity are not the front of some Shakespearean character-veil…they are earnest acts of craziness. I can find no textual support to convince me otherwise.
The argument between Xantes and Huben can be characterized as a struggle between two accounts of theology, relying on arguments of a historical nature (reference to the Spanish Inquisition, for example) and of drastically different “tones.” Huben’s side of the argument appeared more as a verbal barrage—loud, angry, and relentless. Xantes’ calmer demeanor and more level-headed responses made me sympathize with him, on behalf of the Catholics. On the contrary, Huben’s assaults, including the remark that Catholics have ties with the devil, resulted in negative feelings toward the Protestant case.
I definitely agree that Andy’s new “hardness” is in response of the way
Leslie is acting. If she disagrees with the things that Leslie is saying/doing, it is only natural for her to build resentment towards her husband. And through this resentment, she has found comfort in Martin. She called him a “man” right before calling her husband a “boy.” When Martin got upset with her/Moon for being naked, he lost her trust and instantly catergorized him with her husband. Feeling alone, she needed to “harden” herself.
I think the Niaruna moving will be extremely beneficial to their culture. Here’s this white guy who has come in and deceived each and every one of them and eventually indirectly ends up killing a bunch of them off. I think the death of Boranai came at the perfect time. These people aren’t meant to be tamed or converted, they are wild and uncivilized and it doesn’t appear they are going the other direction any time soon. There’s just some things in life that can’t be tamed.
I think it is very wise that Takuno will not allow Moon to the new settlement.
I agree with all the comments above, I understand why Leslie was upset with Andy seeing Moon naked. Moon in a previous chapter was called a “traveler” by Wolfie, this means he never really had a place to go always moving, however could he ever really be a savage? Querrerir thought not they believed he was to civilized for the way he is acting, living, and is putting himself in danger for pretending to be god of rain to the Indians. What if Leslie knew about what happeded at the river previously where he saw and touched her naked body. How would he have reacted to that if he thinks that it is this inappropriate for a “civilized” white man to show his naked body in front of his wife?
For me, the very ironic part is that the very people Moon wanted to kill in the beginning, he decided to save, yet in doing that, he ends up killing them anyway. I mean its hard to find a more ironic situation.
I think the situation Moon has put them in is a good reason for them to move. It may not be a great idea considering the sickness running rampant among them. But Guzman is coming, and he will not show any mercy. So in order to ensure they don’t get entirely eliminated, they better gtfo, for lack of a better phrase.
I agree with the comment above. The most ironic situation in the book has to deal with Moon killing the Niarunas from the flu after deciding to save them from the bombings. In a way he does end up saving them again by sending them off before Guzman and Wolfie can bomb them.
Good point.
I think Hazel has gotten more crazy and funny since she came to the jungle. We already know why she’s basically just lost it; I think anyone who has lost their child to a disease would lose the plot. Despite this, she has gone completely mental. Swinging her flyswatter around in the air, spouting wild stories about North Dakota, speaking in Hebrew…….she’s definitely had some free time alone with Mother Nature. As for Andy, I think she’s been hardened by Billy’s loss, which I think shattered not only her innocence but the innocence of all of the parties involved.I think it hit Andy especially hard because she was the boy’s playmate and she now has that space in her life where a curious, sweet little boy once was. She’s become hardened by the lack of innocence at the mission and I don’t think she can recover it after Billy’s death.
I enjoyed how the medicine ordeal came full circle in this story because when Q and Hazel denied Indian medicine for Billy he ended up dying, and when the Indian parents denied modern medicine for their young child it ended up dying. I thought that was an interesting plot twist because those are two situations where it seems like the cultures could have possibly worked together.
I think this is similiar between all societies…they always think they know the best for their community and in most cases I think this is true.
If there is one big message of the book it’s that we are all essentially the same.
I think since Moon is having the Niaruna leave there home that they have been at for quite sometime will ultimately lead to the Niaruna being killed off by something other than disease. Maybe this was the trap that Moon has had planned for them the whole time? Maybe Moon is bringing the Niaruna into a zone where Guzman can find them easier, and Guzman will be there to hand Moon his passport and he can go home?
Eh, not sure. Why wouldn’t he have just bombed at the beginning of the book then?
Thats a good point, and clearly proves my ending false. Thank you for bringing up that point.
Many of the Indians are now getting ill with the flu and dying off, Moon went through much danger to get the medicine from Querrier and Leslie to help save the Indians that are ill. If the Indians know that Moon brought the medicine for them, why do some of them resist, such as the parents who didnt give it to there child who ended up dying? Is that a lack of faith of believeing that Moon is actually a spirit, or is it just fear of the white man?
It is probably just as simple as a stubbornness to conform to the white man. They didn’t take the machete or the food or anything, so why would they take the medicine?
I’m just going to put this out there. Andy Huben is sexually frustrated! She needs a man, and Huben isn’t it. What’s more, everyone “lusts” after her, but since she’s such a good Christian, pure, woman, nobody ever makes a move. They all just want to admire her from a distance, and she wants someone to actually touch her.
I agree, someone mentioned that up above. Andy kind of wants to be this dangerous, sultry woman but her faith and especially her husband just won’t allow it. I almost think she’s being a tease. For some reason, throughout this whole book I was waiting for Quarrier and Andy to become a thing or for at least a little spark to ignite and essentially nothing has happened.
Andy wants to get some and I bet it’s Moon who delievers. Maybe he will be a little “savage”! 😉
Now, everybody, please check out the Bell Bird video, and then head to the classroom. I’ll see you there in a few minutes. Thanks!
Even though the Niaruna have just lost two leaders in as many days (Aeore and Boronai) I think the movement of the Niaruna tribe is neccessary for their own survival. First, because Guzman has warned that he was going to attack. And secondly, because I believe for the Niaruna to live a good life they must get away from the white people. Ever since Moon and the missionaries have came to them, there has been nothing but death and hardship. They need a new land where they can resume their peaceful lives by themselves
Great comments, everyone. Thanks! Very enlightening.